Thanks for your comments. I’m very sorry to hear about what is happening. I totally agree with the approach of a number of spouse/partner therapists and workshops that treat disclosure of sex addiction as a form of trauma that needs to be addressed. I see so many partners of addicts struggling to deal with what has happened, and not understanding how devastating it is for them.

Annette, one of the things that you mention is so common, and so very frustrating: SA’s will often seek forgiveness from their partners without giving full disclosure. In essence they are asking their partners to forgive them when their partner doesn’t even know what they are forgiving! That’s not fair, and it leads to confusion, resentment, and emotional distance. Additionally, it sounds like their is some significant denial and blameshifting going on. Sorry to hear about that.

Deb, I am also sorry to hear about what is going on with your husband. It sounds like you’ve been through a lot. It sounds like your husband is stuck in the all-too-common “diagnosis trap.” I have very strong feelings about this … too many people get caught up in trying to figure out whether someone is a sex addict or not. The label is confusing because different people define it in different ways … and if a person wants, they can probably find someone who will agree that they are NOT one. But the label of sex addict doesn’t matter … what matters is the pattern of ongoing struggle, breaking boundaries repeatedely despite promises to stop … whatever you want to call that (addiction, dependance, compulsivity, besetting sin, bad habit) it will require massive effort to deal with it.

I actually created a video for a program I run called “The Recovery Journey” that deals with this very topic. Check it out … you might find it helpful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RWsjjJH6Cs

Once again, thanks for commenting.

A formal disclosure is key….did you ever get one?

I’m in a similar boat….although my husband started going to a 12 step program and to a CSAT but has dipped back into denial and isn’t going. He swears that his “sponsor” told him that since he doesn’t have daily urges that he isn’t a SA. I find that hard to believe as there are plenty of binge-purgers out there. My husband is also a covert incest survival and has a older woman fetish (related to his mother). At any rate, I went to an amazing trauma workshop (6 day) at ISH in LA and one thing that I learned is the trauma caused by staggered disclosures/discoveries. I had that for the last year and I feel like I’ve been hit by 5+ planes (like 911). It’s been horrific.

My husband is in denial – says that the two CSATs have told him that he isn’t a SA – although I know that not to be true. It breaks my heart and I’m going to set my boundaries on this next week (with the help of our marriage counselor). I know that I should be grateful that he as least seeing a therapist that is helping him recognize his pattern of behavior (prostitutes followed by affairs with older women, then CL ads (when money ot tight). He thinks he has it “under control” now which the article on this website talks about (“white knuckling”) – a recipe for a relapse.

I’m trying to let go but the trauma of the past year has taken it’s toll – I’m so nervous about getting hit by yet another tsumami.

One thing to consider is a full disclosure with a lie detector. I’m going to insist on it – along with a one day trauma workshop at ISH so that he understands the 12 trauma that SA partners experience. Dr. Manwalla has nailed it, and really understands what we’ve gone through.

Annette – I feel your pain. I know it’s been a year and I hope that you have found peace. Let me know what happened – I’m curious and hopeful that you’ve found peace.

Deb in CA

I appreciate your comment. Sorry that it stayed in que for so long! I get a lot of spam on this site, so I have to manually approve comments. I thought I had approved it the day after you gave it, but for some reason it didn’t go through, and I just saw it again in the cue tonight.

First off, I should say that I agree with you that, when practiced correctly, the SAA approach is the best, and its members wind up with a more tailored, and often stricter set of boundaries for their “inner circle” (definition of sobriety). But this presupposes that they are honest with their sponsor, that they are even working with a sponsor at all, and that their sponsor knows what he/she is doing.

You’ve listed an example of someone engaging in a behavior that is destructive and addictive, but does not fit the “MAP” criteria. I agree with you that in such a case, the SA definition, or the MAP definition of sobriety doesn’t cover this kind of behavior. But I would also guess that this kind of behavior wouldn’t get addressed in the general meetings at an SAA meeting either. Working with a sponsor, and being honest with a sponsor in whatever program one is in is the key, and is the only way to make sure that all our behaviors get addressed.

The fact is that we can find lots of examples of extreme interpretations of sobriety, and problems with how the various programs approach it. We can certainly find that with SAA.

All too often, members of SAA set their boundaries so low that “sobriety” is almost meaningless. My mentor often tells the story of an SAA group he went to (pretty sure it was the last SAA group he went to) where the guy who got a two or three year medallion turned out to have a definition of sobriety which was “To refrain from having sex with someone if I don’t know their first name.” I first thought that was a crazy, extreme story … but over the past few years, I’ve been to a number of SAA meetings around the country, and have contact with a lot of people in SAA, and I have found it is not uncommon to find this kind of absurdly broad definition of sobriety. It’s sort of like an alcoholic trying to define sobriety as “Only drinking alcohol to the point where I’m able to walk across the room without falling down or throwing up.” Try that at an AA meeting!

So we’re back to this bottom line point: get in a program, get a sponsor, work the steps, and get honest with that sponsor about what is happening in your life. I still think that MAP is a good guide, but that in some instances (like the example you bring up) working with a sponsor might unearth something that might be considered “middle circle” to many people actually needs to be part of the “inner circle” (sobriety definition).

- Mark

- Mark

Thank you for your response. I know that this will always be a struggle, and to be honest I have felt myself slipping for a while. This is not something I can just wish away. Even when I am not struggling with Pornography, I still struggle with personal issues. Depression, loneliness, desperation.

If you met me in person, and you didn’t know what I have shared, you would never guess any of this. I am well educated, I am a homeowner, I make a good living, I am kind to people, I pay my taxes on time, I don’t cheat to get ahead.

However there is something about sexuality that mesmerizes me, like the Sirens in Iliad poem. Moreover, I don’t understand why I am attracted to acts that are sadistic and humiliating to women? I know you not a psychologist, and even if you were there ma not be an answer. However, this particular attraction scares me. It is a terrible feeling to be scared of your own sexuality.

Tom

Thanks for commenting, and sharing your story. Sorry to hear about your fall back into the behavior. It sounds like you’re taking steps to make sure it was a slip and not a full blown relapse.

Your story is instructive, and a good reminder for people who think that they “over it.” It is not uncommon for people to go through periods where the press of sexual temptation really seems to lift for extended periods of time. I do think that as we go through recovery, things do change for us. We get out from under the weight of out of control sexual craving. But we are still vulnerable … and that’s the point that so many people miss.

I also want to affirm what you and your therapist are talking about — that pornography is a symptom of deeper inner turmoil. That’s true with any addiction. Addictions are tools … they are things we use to cope. As the great therapist Virginia Satir used to say, “the problem is not the problem.” What manifests itself as a problem (behavior) is usually related to something deeper going on.

The last time I looked at Porn was 1 year ago. New Years Day 2011 (Okay maybe not quite a year). I was very proud of this bench mark. In fact it wasn’t even a struggle, I just didn’t think that porn had any control over me any longer.

However, last night I fell off the wagon Big Time. I went to a dance club, and had my share of drinks, the woman were young hot and actin naughty and I was totally digging it. (I’m 38 years old for crying out loud!)
I got home at 3:30am, and took my laptop into my bed room. I started looking at non-porn pictures, but it didn’t take long to delve back into some really disturbing and hardcore material. I masturbated at least 20 times last night (not exaggerating – my penis is raw and hurts badly) and didn’t sleep a wink. I also MB three times this morning. It’s almost like, “hey broke the seal, might as well keep going at it.” It was like the old bad me rose from the ashes and took over my thoughts and actions.

I am deeply saddened by my choice. However, I am grateful for this website, I also work with a certified sex therapist. I know that the reason I turn to porn is for instant gratification, and I’m sure there is some type of chemical in my brain that gets stimulated when I look at porn. That is the science part of it, however I know first hand the devastating impact pornography has on ones life. I lost the love of my life years ago because of this problem.

I just want o comment on a few items that you posted in regard to relapse.
1. as a child I was diagnosed with having OCD. This was back in the 80′s so it was not fully understood, not is it now. I am not taking medication however I think it is worth looking into.
2. I have let my boundaries soften. When I first read “out of the shadows” it was an ah ha moment, and had the answers I knew I was searching for. However I seemed to have not focused on the lessons in that book for sometime. In fact I’ve found myself distancing myself from being an addict, you know that someone else’s problem not mine.
3. I bought a new computer since the last time I looked at pornography, and I took pride in the fact that if someone searched my computer they would not find anything I would be ashamed of, unfortunately that is no longer the case.

One final not, my therapist and I have uncovered that my real problem stems much deeper then pornography (Not to underestimate the destructiveness of pornography), in fact porn seems to be more of a symptom and not the root of the problem. I seem to have deep emotional issues that I have not dealt with, and porn was a way of feeling brief pleasure, basically no different then any other drug.
I am particularly concerned with the type of pornography that seems to stimulate me, it centers around abuse and humiliation. I have no recollection of these type of things happening to me as a child, but it is possible that there is a connection. At least I hope there is, because I have no way of explaining why I am drawn to that stuff, and I am ashamed to admit that I am.

Well these are just some thoughts I felt like sharing with all of you. Maybe some of you can relate to them and that will help you feel less lonely and ashamed.

I am discouraged by my actions, but I have not lost hope and I know that I can get back on that wagon and hopefully use this as a wake up call to get back on the right track,

Thank you again for having this website, I know this is not a comfortable topic but ignoring it doesn’t make it go away.

Tom